美國(guó)網(wǎng)友對(duì)比中國(guó)與美國(guó)的鐵路網(wǎng)
Railway Map in China vs the US (note speeds)
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
網(wǎng)友：我正要說(shuō)哈哈。我認(rèn)為美國(guó)擁有最大的貨運(yùn)網(wǎng)絡(luò)，俄羅斯距離美國(guó)很近。
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*Passenger railway
*客運(yùn)鐵路。
I was about the say lol. I think the US has the largest freight network with Russia being real close.
我正要說(shuō)哈哈。我認(rèn)為美國(guó)擁有最大的貨運(yùn)網(wǎng)絡(luò)，俄羅斯距離美國(guó)很近。
Passenger trains don’t go on the same railway network as cargo trains (in the US)?
客運(yùn)列車和貨運(yùn)列車不在同一鐵路網(wǎng)內(nèi)運(yùn)行（在美國(guó)）？
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Most do. But cargo trains have de facto priority, making many passenger trains unreliable
大多數(shù)列車都是這樣的。但貨運(yùn)列車實(shí)際上享有優(yōu)先權(quán)，這使得許多客運(yùn)列車靠不住。
I travelled by fast train from Guangzhou to Shenzhen last year and remarked to the local guy I was with that the HUGE station at GZ didn’t look too busy for rush hour. He looked at me like I was a bit stupid and just said “But it wasn’t built to be busy in 2023”
去年我坐高鐵從廣州到深圳，跟一個(gè)當(dāng)?shù)厝苏f(shuō)，廣州的大型車站在高峰時(shí)段看起來(lái)并不太繁忙。他看著我，好像我有點(diǎn)傻，只是說(shuō)“但它不是為2023年的繁忙而建的”
M ain’t the only one with 20 year plans.
毛并不是唯一一個(gè)有二十年計(jì)劃的人。
Isn’t the population declining now…
現(xiàn)在他們的人口不是在減少嗎……
Yeah, almost every single developed nation has a leveling or dropping population. China is no different.
They still expect cities to increase as people seek out Metropolitan life. The housing development in the tier 1 and 2 cities has not slowed down
是的，幾乎每個(gè)發(fā)達(dá)國(guó)家的人口數(shù)量都在穩(wěn)定或下降。中國(guó)也不例外。
他們?nèi)匀活A(yù)計(jì)，隨著人們尋求在大都市生活，城市數(shù)量將會(huì)增加。一線和二線城市的住房開發(fā)并沒有放緩。
It is but I think they still plan on their population consolidating into the cities, hence why they also built a shit ton of apartments that have sat empty for years.
是的，但我認(rèn)為他們?nèi)匀挥?jì)劃將人口集中到城市，這就是為什么他們還建造了大量空置多年的公寓。
They've built a shit ton of empty apartments due to real-estate speculation by corporate and retail investors. The situation with Evergrande being a perfect example. That had, and still has, the chance to be a 2008 moment for China.
由于企業(yè)和散戶投資者的房地產(chǎn)投機(jī)，他們建造了大量空置公寓。恒大的情況就是一個(gè)完美的例子。那曾經(jīng)是中國(guó)2008年時(shí)的一個(gè)機(jī)遇，現(xiàn)在依然有這種機(jī)會(huì)。
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Yes, but for a while that population decline will mean rural communities in poorer provinces ageing, emptying and eventually disappearing while the largest cities continue to grow.
A lot of people in China still drive long distances or take domestic flights so the government may also be planning for a future where high speed rail is more dominant.
是的，但一段時(shí)間內(nèi)，人口下降將意味著貧困省份的農(nóng)村社區(qū)老化、空置并最終消失，而大城市則繼續(xù)發(fā)展。
中國(guó)很多人仍然開車長(zhǎng)途旅行或乘坐國(guó)內(nèi)航班，因此政府可能也在為高鐵占主導(dǎo)地位的未來(lái)做規(guī)劃。
and it is built to hold the annual Chinese new year.
它是為了保證中國(guó)農(nóng)歷新年時(shí)的春運(yùn)而建造的。
The train between Boston and Providence absofuckinlutely does not go 160MPH
波士頓和普羅維登斯之間的火車絕對(duì)不會(huì)以160英里/小時(shí)的速度行駛。
Yup, I know for a fact it doesn't lol. The global definition of a high speed train route is one that goes 250 kph (155 mph), of which there are none in the US...
是的，我知道事實(shí)并非如此，哈哈。全球?qū)Ω咚倭熊嚶肪€的定義是時(shí)速250公里（155英里）的列車路線，而美國(guó)沒有這樣的路線……
It's sad, the USA would be perfect for a high speed railway network, as because of the long distances, the advantages of high speed trains would come out much clearer than here in Germany, where you rarely have long stretches where the train can stay on it's top speed for longer, but in the USA, it could stay on speed for hours. Combine these high speed corridors with wind and solar powered alongside, fist to power the trains and second to use the railway's electric grid as a backbone to bring this renewable energy from the empty Midwest over to the coastal areas with high consumption.
很遺憾，美國(guó)本來(lái)是修建高速鐵路網(wǎng)的完美之選，因?yàn)榫嚯x長(zhǎng)，高速列車的優(yōu)勢(shì)比德國(guó)要明顯得多，在德國(guó)，列車很少能在很長(zhǎng)的時(shí)間內(nèi)保持最高速度，但在美國(guó)，它可以保持?jǐn)?shù)小時(shí)的速度。將這些高速走廊與風(fēng)能和太陽(yáng)能相結(jié)合，首先為列車提供動(dòng)力，其次使用鐵路電網(wǎng)作為骨干，將這種可再生能源從空曠的中西部地區(qū)輸送到能源消耗高的沿海地區(qū)。
It wouldn’t be because we’re one of the least population dense countries in the world. Trains work best in population dense countries like China and Europe. The cost of these trains in the U.S. would be extremely high.
這不會(huì)像你想的那樣，因?yàn)槲覀兪鞘澜缟先丝诿芏茸畹偷膰?guó)家之一?；疖囋谌丝诿芗膰?guó)家（如中國(guó)和歐洲）運(yùn)行效果最好。在美國(guó)，這些火車的成本會(huì)非常高。
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That makes no sense. Trains are more efficient the less they have to stop, the faster they can go and the more people they can carry. Why do you think trains were literally everywhere in the us before the invention of cars? The only reason cars took over is because it was a status symbol that became associated with American culture and “freedom”
這毫無(wú)道理?；疖嚨耐＼嚧螖?shù)越少，效率就越高，行駛速度越快，載客量也越大。你認(rèn)為為什么在汽車發(fā)明之前，火車在美國(guó)無(wú)處不在？汽車占據(jù)主導(dǎo)地位的唯一原因是，它是一種身份象征，與美國(guó)文化和“自由”聯(lián)系在一起。
You wouldn't start with a broad network of high speed railway, you go with one or two main corridors and use normal railway as feeders, I'd do the Philly -Chicago-Denver-Frisco corridor first, it has the most potential for such a line.
Sure, such infrastructure is expensive and takes decades to build, but you can do it step by step and I'm sure, if you do it right, you can be comparably fast to a plane (where you have to be early at the airport, have security control, wait until it can start etc, which wats time), on a train, you hop on and hop off, that's it.
One of the biggest problems of American railways is, that there's at least half a century, if not more of neglect and missed chances to keep pace with other regions. If you kept investing step by step, you'd have the greatest high speed system worldwide, but all American railway companies do is to squeeze more and more freight on older and more broken rails.
你不會(huì)從一個(gè)廣闊的高速鐵路網(wǎng)絡(luò)開始，而是先建一兩條主要走廊，然后使用普通鐵路作為支線，我會(huì)先建費(fèi)城-芝加哥-丹佛-弗里斯科走廊，它最有潛力成為這樣的線路。
當(dāng)然，這樣的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施很昂貴，需要幾十年才能建成，但你可以一步一步來(lái)，我相信，如果你做得對(duì)，你可以像坐飛機(jī)一樣快（你必須早點(diǎn)到機(jī)場(chǎng)，接受安檢，等到他可以起飛等等，這很浪費(fèi)時(shí)間），坐火車，你可以隨上隨下，就是這樣。
美國(guó)鐵路最大的問題之一是，至少有半個(gè)世紀(jì)，甚至更長(zhǎng)的時(shí)間被忽視和錯(cuò)失了與其他地區(qū)保持同步的機(jī)會(huì)。如果你繼續(xù)一步一步地投資，你就會(huì)擁有世界上最偉大的高速系統(tǒng)，但美國(guó)鐵路公司所做的只是在更老、更破損的鐵軌上塞進(jìn)越來(lái)越多的貨物。
Average density does not mean anything in this case, look at Russia for example. What matters are population centers and there the US has big issues because besides the old 13 colonies they don't really have any big population centers
在這種情況下，平均密度沒有任何意義，以俄羅斯為例。重要的是人口中心，而美國(guó)在這方面存在很大問題，因?yàn)槌伺f的13個(gè)殖民地外，他們實(shí)際上沒有任何大型人口中心。
Auto and tire companies purchased the train companies and tracks so Americans would have no option other than buying a car. My relative became a millionaire from pulling up railroad ties from tracks that are no longer used.
汽車和輪胎公司收購(gòu)了火車公司和鐵軌，因此美國(guó)人除了買車別無(wú)選擇。我的親戚通過從不再使用的鐵軌上拆下枕木成為了百萬(wàn)富翁。
The lobbying by the car and airline industries has made passenger transport by train extremely slow.
Boston -NYC: 4 hrs speed: 66 mph Washington -NYC: 3:15 hrs speed 90 mph
Meanwhile, I was on a train in France , cruising at 200mph, with free stable wifi.
The German version even has seat service for snacks, beer and coffee. Noice!
汽車和航空業(yè)的游說(shuō)使得火車客運(yùn)速度變得極其緩慢。
波士頓 - 紐約：4小時(shí) 速度：66英里/小時(shí) 華盛頓 - 紐約：3小時(shí)15分鐘 速度：90英里/小時(shí)
與此同時(shí)，我在法國(guó)乘坐火車，時(shí)速200英里/小時(shí)，有免費(fèi)穩(wěn)定的wifi。
德國(guó)的甚至提供小吃、啤酒和咖啡的座位服務(wù)。太棒了！
Why does lobbying even exist. It's just corruption
為什么游說(shuō)會(huì)存在？這只是腐敗。
“Why does lobbying even exist. It’s just corruption”
That is precisely the reason in exists for
“游說(shuō)為什么會(huì)存在？這只是腐敗”
這正是游說(shuō)存在的原因。
So many excuses. Coming from Japan and living in US I truly wish we had good passenger rail here. It’s very very convenient and it’s painful to see the massive highways jammed everyday when you know how good it could be.
The US for the past 60 or so years is pretty abysmal in terms of building infrastructure. And this is despite bipartisan support in congress, state government, and for the most part voters. For High speed rail construction. The Tokaido bullet train railway in Japan is 300 miles done in 5 years, and the Sanyo line 340 miles in another 5 years, basically back to back in the 1980s. About 1800 miles built by 2021. The EU-27 built a whopping 6800 miles of high speed railway in the span of 1985 to 2021. The Beijing-Kunming high speed railway is 1700 miles built in 7 years, 2010-2017. Despite the High-speed ground transportation act of 1965, Metroliner was only 200 miles in 4 years and barely faster than conventional train. Nothing came out of The Passenger Railroad Rebuilding Act of 1980. Metroliner was discontinued in 2006. 2008 California Prop 1A passes with an expected completion year of 2030 for 800 miles but construction doesn’t begin until 2015. “Officials hope a 119-mile portion… will be complete by 2026”. If we proceed at this pace, full completion will be 2083, a full 53 years past the initial estimate.
借口太多了。我來(lái)自日本，現(xiàn)在住在美國(guó)，真心希望我們這里有好的客運(yùn)鐵路。它非常方便，當(dāng)你知道它有多好的時(shí)候，每天看到巨大的高速公路堵塞真是令人痛心。
過去60年左右，美國(guó)在基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施建設(shè)方面表現(xiàn)相當(dāng)糟糕。盡管國(guó)會(huì)、州政府和大多數(shù)選民都支持這一做法，但情況仍然如此。對(duì)于高速鐵路建設(shè)。日本的東海道子彈頭鐵路在5年內(nèi)建成了300英里，山陽(yáng)線又在5年內(nèi)建成了340英里，基本上是在1980年代連續(xù)建成的。到2021年將建成約1800英里。歐盟27國(guó)在1985年至2021年期間修建了長(zhǎng)達(dá)6800英里的高鐵。京昆高鐵在2010-2017年的7年內(nèi)建成了1700英里。盡管1965年頒布了高速地面交通法案，但都市特快在4年內(nèi)只行駛了200英里，速度幾乎不比傳統(tǒng)火車快。1980年的客運(yùn)鐵路重建法案毫無(wú)進(jìn)展。都市特快于2006年停運(yùn)。2008年加州1A號(hào)提案通過，預(yù)計(jì)800英里鐵路將于2030年完工，但施工要到2015年才開始?！肮賳T們希望119英里的路段……將在2026年完工”。如果我們以這樣的速度前進(jìn)，全面完工將在2083年，比最初的估計(jì)整整晚了53年。
This is true, there are places where a high-speed rail line will never be competitive (NY to LA) just because of distance, but there are so many places in the US where a train line should be obvious. One going up the east and west coast, another in the Texas triangle, a rust belt line, and the north east should be absolutely jammed with rail.
The US has the largest rail network in the world, this shouldn't be all that hard.
確實(shí)如此，有些地方的高鐵線路永遠(yuǎn)無(wú)法與紐約到洛杉磯競(jìng)爭(zhēng)，原因就在于距離太遠(yuǎn)，但美國(guó)有很多地方應(yīng)該有鐵路線。一條線路沿著東海岸和西海岸，另一條線路在德克薩斯三角區(qū)，一條鐵銹地帶線路，東北部應(yīng)該完全被鐵路擠滿。
美國(guó)擁有世界上最大的鐵路網(wǎng)絡(luò)，這應(yīng)該不難。
That US map is very incomplete, the US has the largest rail network in the world.
那張美國(guó)地圖很不完整，美國(guó)擁有世界上最大的鐵路網(wǎng)絡(luò)。
Yeah, U.S. has tons of freight railway. Looks like these maps are specifically of passenger rail, and the fact that they're not labelled as such is pretty dumb.
是的，美國(guó)有大量的貨運(yùn)鐵路。看起來(lái)這些地圖是專門針對(duì)客運(yùn)鐵路的，而它們沒有被標(biāo)記為客運(yùn)鐵路，這很愚蠢。
The US also has a ton of passenger trains not on this map. This as far as I can tell is just a map of the major lines
美國(guó)還有大量未在地圖上標(biāo)注的客運(yùn)列車。據(jù)我所知，這只是一張主要線路的地圖。
It’s just a map of the main Amtrak Passenger Trains
There’s many other passenger train lines, and far more freight train lines.
這只是一張主要是美國(guó)國(guó)家鐵路客運(yùn)公司客運(yùn)列車的地圖
還有許多其他客運(yùn)列車線路，以及更多的貨運(yùn)列車線路。
True, I should have specified that these maps are for passenger trains only
沒錯(cuò)，我應(yīng)該說(shuō)明這些地圖僅適用于客運(yùn)列車。
I'm literally sitting on a US passenger train NOT on this map
我實(shí)際上正坐在美國(guó)客運(yùn)列車上，但這個(gè)線路沒有在這張地圖上。
Light rails are technically not considered locomotives and not trains
從技術(shù)上講，輕軌不被視為機(jī)車，也不是火車。
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Everyone defends for the US but I just want to dream about going from Boston to NYC within 90 mins.
每個(gè)人都為美國(guó)辯護(hù)，但我只希望能在90分鐘內(nèi)從波士頓到達(dá)紐約。
The USA has a long history of corruption and Cargo preference, thus the embarrassingly horrible passenger train network. The Cargo lines have track use priority. There is also huge Airline industry lobbying to fight against for better Passenger routes. It's so sad here. We should have some of the best, but it just isn't meant to be here.
美國(guó)有著長(zhǎng)期的腐敗和貨運(yùn)偏好，因此客運(yùn)列車網(wǎng)絡(luò)糟糕得令人尷尬。貨運(yùn)線路享有優(yōu)先使用權(quán)。航空業(yè)也大力游說(shuō)，爭(zhēng)取更好的客運(yùn)路線。這真是太可悲了。我們應(yīng)該擁有一些最好的，但它注定不會(huì)出現(xiàn)在這里。
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What an embarrassment
太丟臉了。
This is all the high speed passenger routes in the US plus all of these are also major freight routes which puts a major slow down to the whole operation. Are the routes in china just passenger routes for passenger trains?
這張圖都是美國(guó)高速客運(yùn)路線，而且這些路線也是主要的貨運(yùn)路線，這大大降低了整個(gè)運(yùn)營(yíng)的速度。圖上中國(guó)的路線只是客運(yùn)列車的客運(yùn)路線嗎？
China is investing in their middle class. It will pay dividends.
中國(guó)正在投資他們的中產(chǎn)階級(jí)。這將帶來(lái)回報(bào)。
don't people fly in the US? I live in Canada and don't know much about domestic flights in the us but I heard they are cheap.
美國(guó)沒人坐飛機(jī)嗎？我住在加拿大，對(duì)美國(guó)國(guó)內(nèi)航班不太了解，但聽說(shuō)很便宜。
I live in a major US city on the west coast. Unless someone is covering my transportation costs, there are about 10 major metro areas (basically everything west of Denver) which I would visit by train 10 times out of 10 if it were a viable option. The US is big so air travel is a necessity especially if you're out west thousands of miles away from the bulk of the population.
But absent those longer trips, I'll sacrifice slower travel time for cheaper travel costs, a presumably more relaxed experience, and the reduced carbon emissions. Could also make for less crowded airports and a reduction in airfare prices. It's pathetic that we don't have a highly developed high speed passenger railway system.
我住在美國(guó)西海岸的一個(gè)大城市。除非有人承擔(dān)我的交通費(fèi)用，否則如果可行的話，我十有八九會(huì)坐火車去大約10個(gè)大都市地區(qū)旅行（基本上是丹佛以西的所有地區(qū)）。美國(guó)幅員遼闊，所以航空旅行是必需的，特別是如果你在遠(yuǎn)離大部分人口數(shù)千英里的西部。
但如果沒有這些長(zhǎng)途旅行，我會(huì)選擇較慢的旅行時(shí)間，以換取更便宜的旅行費(fèi)用、更輕松的體驗(yàn)和更少的碳排放。也可以減少機(jī)場(chǎng)擁擠，降低機(jī)票價(jià)格。我們沒有高度發(fā)達(dá)的高速客運(yùn)鐵路系統(tǒng)，這真是太可悲了。
People do fly here in the US, but it's certainly not cheap.
在美國(guó)人們都是坐飛機(jī)出行，但肯定不便宜。
Nonstop flight NYC to LAX $118, is not bad, but everything is relative
紐約直飛洛杉磯國(guó)際機(jī)場(chǎng)118美元，還不錯(cuò)，但一切都是相對(duì)的。
That’s an awesome price, but you can’t get that price tomorrow. I’ve only been to China once, but was easy to book next day flight for $200-300.
這個(gè)價(jià)格太棒了，但明天就買不到這個(gè)價(jià)格了。我只去過中國(guó)一次，但第二天的航班很容易就訂到了，只要200-300美元。
Yes you’re right but believe me I’ve lived in China and during the holidays there are times when tickets for trains and buses are sold out in minutes, I personally am a fan of trains but it is what it is
是的，你說(shuō)得對(duì)，但相信我，我在中國(guó)生活過，假期期間，火車票和公交車票有時(shí)會(huì)在幾分鐘內(nèi)售罄，我個(gè)人很喜歡火車，但這就是事實(shí)。
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On a list of things that are “too expensive” in America flying is damn well near the bottom. It used to cost a lot more relative to inflation… Airlines don’t make shit. As long as you aren’t booking last second ahead of time and don’t mind a layover you can find cheap flights to just about any major American city.
在美國(guó)“太貴”的物品清單中，飛行幾乎排在最后。相對(duì)于通貨膨脹，飛行成本曾經(jīng)高得多……航空公司不賺錢。只要你不是在最后一秒提前預(yù)訂，并且不介意中途停留，你就能找到飛往幾乎任何美國(guó)主要城市的廉價(jià)航班。
Depends. It was cheaper for me to ride a train to BWI and fly, than it was to fly directly from RIC
It takes the same amount of time to take the train to NYC than to drive from here. Flights are not even comparable price wise
視情況而定。對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)，坐火車到華盛頓國(guó)際機(jī)場(chǎng)再坐飛機(jī)比直接從里士滿國(guó)際機(jī)場(chǎng)飛便宜
坐火車到紐約和開車去的時(shí)間一樣。機(jī)票價(jià)格甚至都無(wú)法相比。
A lot of those lines in China are uneconomical, and were built as an economic stimulus.
They are carrying a lot of debt that they can't pay.
中國(guó)的許多鐵路線都是不賺錢的，是為了刺激經(jīng)濟(jì)而修建的。
他們背負(fù)著無(wú)法償還的巨額z務(wù)。
As do many US flying routes. In fact the busy routes subsidize the slow flying routes in the USA.
就像許多美國(guó)航線一樣。事實(shí)上，繁忙的航線補(bǔ)貼了美國(guó)飛行緩慢的航線。
Transport is to transport people. Everything need not be for profit
交通就是載人，一切不一定以盈利為目的。
Public transportation doesn’t have to to profitable, since it provides a public service. The fact that some lines are profitable at all, and that revenue comes in from the infrastructure, makes it far more efficient than some other “services” provided by the government, such as the military or space program.
公共交通不一定要盈利，因?yàn)樗峁┑氖枪卜?wù)。事實(shí)上，一些線路是盈利的，收入來(lái)自基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施，這使得它比政府提供的其他“服務(wù)”更有效率，如軍事或太空計(jì)劃。
Before anyone says “but America is so big” remember that China is bigger than
在有人說(shuō)“但美國(guó)這么大”之前，請(qǐng)記住中國(guó)比美國(guó)更大。
These are commuter maps. The US has a fuck ton of cargo rail.
這些是通勤地圖。美國(guó)有大量的貨運(yùn)鐵路。
China's system is way overbuilt.
However, US's system is even moreso underbuilt.
中國(guó)的鐵路系統(tǒng)建設(shè)得過多了。
然而，美國(guó)的鐵路系統(tǒng)建設(shè)得更不完善。
I mean, it is an unfair comparison. China has a billion people compared to American 300 million, it has larger areas of high population density and invests in railways.
我的意思是，這是一個(gè)不公平的比較。中國(guó)有超過10億人口，而美國(guó)只有3億，中國(guó)擁有更大的人口密度高地區(qū)，并且投資于鐵路。
The first railroad in the US began in 1828. China's first autonomous railway started in 1881. However, there was a long period of war between 1840 and 1950, and it was only in 1950 that stable railway construction began. This is equivalent to the US being a hundred years ahead of schedule
美國(guó)第一條鐵路始于1828年，中國(guó)第一條自主鐵路始于1881年，但1840年至1950年之間經(jīng)歷了漫長(zhǎng)的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)，直到1950年才開始穩(wěn)定的鐵路建設(shè)，這相當(dāng)于美國(guó)提前了一百年。
I agree. It's unfair to compare a second world country like China to a third world country like the USA.
我同意。將中國(guó)這樣的第二世界國(guó)家與美國(guó)這樣的第三世界國(guó)家進(jìn)行比較是不公平的。
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