QA回答：就性能而言，除了射程之外，中國的 J20 是否優(yōu)于美國的F22或F35？

Kyle Krebs
It’s hard to say. Little is divulged publicly from the PLAAF on the J-20, to their credit.

很難說。值得稱贊的是，中國人民解放軍空軍（PLAAF）對殲-20公開透露的信息很少。

On paper, what they claim is impressive.

在紙面數(shù)據(jù)上，他們聲稱的性能參數(shù)令人印象深刻。

Top speed: Mach 2
Gross weight: 55,116 lbs.
Thrust: 33,000 lbf each engine w/afterburner
Range: 3,000 nmi
Service ceiling: 66,000 feet
G limit: +9
Rate of climb: 59,800 ft/min
Wing loading: 69 lb/sq. ft.

最高速度：2馬赫
最大起飛重量：55,116磅
推力：每臺發(fā)動機帶加力燃燒室時33,000磅力
航程：3,000海里
實用升限：66,000英尺
過載限制：+9G
爬升率：59,800英尺/分鐘
翼載荷：69磅/平方英尺

If those numbers are true, then it would assume that the J-20 is slightly below performance than the F-22, and slightly above the F-35.

如果這些數(shù)字屬實，那么可以推測殲-20的性能略低于F-22，但略高于F-35。

Stealth is even harder to gauge. Most observers tend to agree that the F-22 and F-35 are stealthier overall, by about 2 to 3 orders of magnitude over the J-20.

隱身性能甚至更難衡量。大多數(shù)觀察家傾向于認為，F(xiàn)-22和F-35在整體隱身性能上更優(yōu)，大約比殲-20低2到3個數(shù)量級（即雷達反射截面積小2-3個數(shù)量級）。

But radar cross-section is very difficult to calculate, and we have no information on the material they have used in their radar absorbent material, etc.

但雷達反射截面積（RCS）非常難計算，而且我們對其使用的雷達吸波材料等信息一無所知。

Its avionics don’t appear to be as advanced as the F-35’s or the F-22’s.

其航電系統(tǒng)似乎不如F-35或F-22先進。

It does have an AESA radar, infrared search and track, and an electro-optical targeting system.

它確實擁有有源相控陣（AESA）雷達、紅外搜索與跟蹤系統(tǒng)（IRST）以及光電瞄準系統(tǒng)（EOTS）。

And although it may have more features in its avionics, they haven’t been publicly disclosed.

而且，盡管它的航電系統(tǒng)可能擁有更多功能，但這些都未被公開披露。

If you ask any pilot, what matters, at the end of the day, more than anything else, is the pilot and how competent they are.

如果你問任何飛行員，歸根結(jié)底，最重要的莫過于飛行員本身以及他們的能力。

All that stuff is meaningless unless you have a pilot who is experienced enough, seasoned enough, and professional enough to effectively use the tools at his or her disposal.

除非你擁有一位經(jīng)驗足夠豐富、老練且足夠?qū)I(yè)的飛行員，能夠有效運用其掌握的（飛機）工具，否則所有那些（技術）東西都毫無意義。

In a one-on-one match-up, who sees the other first, who fires first, and who makes the most moves correctly before the other pilot is the one that wins out most of the time.

在一對一的較量中，誰能先發(fā)現(xiàn)對方，誰能先開火，誰能在對方飛行員之前做出更多正確的機動動作，誰就最有可能獲勝。

On that note, the Chinese have caught up to the U.S. Navy and Air Force, with around 100–150 flight hours per pilot annually, with the U.S. Navy and Air Force doing about the same.

在這一點上（指飛行員訓練），中國人已經(jīng)趕上了美國海軍和空軍，其飛行員年均飛行時間約為100-150小時，美國海軍和空軍也大致如此。

Like Russian aircraft and doctrine, if the fight is within visual range, the J-20 would fare far better going up against either than if it were conducted at beyond visual range.

類似于俄羅斯的飛機和作戰(zhàn)理念，如果戰(zhàn)斗發(fā)生在視距內(nèi)（WVR），殲-20對抗F-22或F-35的表現(xiàn)會比在超視距（BVR）作戰(zhàn)中好得多。

As it isn’t as stealthy as the F-22 and F-35, and its avionics likely aren’t as advanced as either of them, either.

因為它不像F-22和F-35那樣具備隱身性能，而且它的航電系統(tǒng)也很可能不如這兩者先進。

One advantage I would give the U.S. Air Force and Navy is that stealth technology, doctrine, and strategy isn’t new to them.

我認為美國空軍和海軍的一個優(yōu)勢是，隱身技術、作戰(zhàn)理念和戰(zhàn)略對他們來說并不新鮮。

They’ve been doing this for decades, with the F-35 the 4th iteration of stealth aircraft that have seen action.

他們已經(jīng)實踐了幾十年，F(xiàn)-35是其投入實戰(zhàn)的第四代隱身飛機。

The Chinese have just started to understand the technology, and it’s more than just making the plane stealthy.

中國人則剛剛開始理解這項技術，而這不僅僅是讓飛機具有隱身能力那么簡單。

Approach vectors, angles, formations, all of that matters with stealth aircraft.

接敵航線、角度、編隊，所有這些對于隱身飛機都至關重要。

You can have all the stealth coating in the world, and if you don’t know how to use it properly, you might as well not be flying a stealth aircraft at all.

即使你擁有世界上所有的隱身涂層，但如果不知道如何正確運用，那還不如不飛隱身飛機。

It’s still an open question as to how far along the Chinese are at stealth fighter aircraft doctrine, or the technology itself, as this is their first aircraft with the technology.

中國人在隱身戰(zhàn)斗機作戰(zhàn)理念或技術本身方面進展如何，這仍然是一個懸而未決的問題，因為這是他們的第一款隱身飛機。

They could either be learning quickly and on their way to being a peer-adversary, or they might be a paper tiger.

他們可能正在快速學習，并朝著成為對等對手的方向邁進，也可能只是個紙老虎。

It’s not the sexiest or the most provocative answer, but there you go.

這不是最吸引人、也不是最具挑釁性的答案，但事實就是如此。

I will say this. On sheer looks alone, the F-35 and F-22 are far more aesthetically pleasing than the J-20. I think it’s uglier than sin.

我要說的是。單就純粹的外形而言，F(xiàn)-35和F-22遠比殲-20更賞心悅目。我認為殲-20丑得要命。


Chengdu J-20

成都殲-20


F-22 Raptor

F-22 猛禽


F-35A Lightning II

F-35A 閃電II

Koby
The J-20 is China's attempt at making an aircraft that can pair well with the American F-35 and F-22.

殲-20是中國試圖制造的一款能與美國F-35和F-22匹敵的飛機。

It's really interesting because I'm sure most of people here have heard somebody say, “Oh China steals information from the US”… They literally do and it crazy how much information they stole off the F-22 and F-35.

這真的很有趣，因為我敢肯定這里的大多數(shù)人都聽過有人說“哦，C從美國竊取信息”……他們確實這么做了，而且他們從F-22和F-35身上竊取的信息量之大令人咋舌。

Former secretary of defense of policy said many things about the Chinese, one harsh statement he made was, “They have profited greatly from their thievery over the years... They've put it to good use, and they've come up with an advanced fifth-generation fighter”, he also claimed that the J-20 would be nowhere near as good as it would be if this information wasn't stolen.

前負責政策的國防部副部長說了很多關于中國人的事情，他發(fā)表過的一個嚴厲聲明是：“他們多年來從TQ行為中獲利巨大……他們很好地利用了這些信息，并研制出了一款先進的第五代戰(zhàn)斗機?！彼€聲稱，如果沒有竊取這些信息，殲-20的性能將遠不如現(xiàn)在。

Multiple C spy’s have been found working for Lockheed Martin and sent to jail for 49 months.

已發(fā)現(xiàn)多名C間諜為洛克希德·馬丁公司工作，并被判入獄49個月。

In 2009, it was reported that aC hacker hacked into the JSF files and stole several terabytes of data from the design and electronic information of the aircraft.

2009年，有報道稱一名C黑客入侵了聯(lián)合攻擊戰(zhàn)斗機（JSF）項目文件，竊取了數(shù)TB的飛機設計和電子信息數(shù)據(jù)。

The reason I'm telling you this is because the J-20 wouldn't be as good as it is today if they didn't steal this information.

我告訴你們這些的原因是，如果他們沒有Q取這些信息，殲-20就不會有今天的水平。

The Chinese however, having a large amount of aircraft design info from the US, failed to make an aircraft that could compete with the STEALTH of the aircraft.

然而，盡管中國人擁有大量來自美國的飛機設計信息，卻未能制造出一款能在隱身性能（STEALTH）上與（美國）該型飛機競爭的飛機。

Although, it is still know to be pretty stealthy.

不過，它仍然被認為具有相當不錯的隱身能力。

On January 2023, a J-20 pilot penetrated the Taiwanese Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) without being detected or intercepted.

2023年1月，一名殲-20飛行員曾滲透進入臺灣（地區(qū)）防空識別區(qū)（ADIZ），未被發(fā)現(xiàn)或攔截。

The J-20 can also hold quite a lot of missles internally because they have 3 bays, 1 chunky one and 2 side bays.

殲-20還能在內(nèi)部攜帶相當多的導彈，因為它有3個彈艙：1個厚實的主彈艙和2個側(cè)彈艙。

The big chunky one, which I suppose we can call the main bay, can hold 4 missles air or ground, and 1 air to air missile in each of the side bays.

那個又大又厚實的，我想我們可以稱之為主彈艙，能攜帶4枚空對空或空對地導彈，而每個側(cè)彈艙能攜帶1枚空對空導彈。

The only problem the J-20 has is engine reliability, so many J-20’s have had engine failures from their WS-10 and prior engines, hopefully for them the WS-15 engine which is in its final stages of testing works better.

殲-20唯一的問題是發(fā)動機可靠性，許多殲-20使用的WS-10及更早的發(fā)動機都出現(xiàn)過故障，對他們來說，希望處于測試最后階段的WS-15發(fā)動機能表現(xiàn)更好。

But why do we think there engines are so unreliable and they can't maintain their aircraft? Most likely because there was no instruction manual on how to maintain the aircraft with the information they stole.

但我們?yōu)槭裁凑J為他們的發(fā)動機如此不可靠，而且他們無法維護自己的飛機呢？很可能是因為他們竊取的信息里沒有關于如何維護飛機的說明書。

If you want more in depth detail of the 3 aircraft, check my other recent answer pretty much titled this one.

如果你想更深入了解這三款飛機，可以查看我最近另一個標題幾乎與此相同的回答。

The J-20 is good (not supirior but similar), but they stole information, so do they really deserve the credit?

殲-20是不錯（并非更優(yōu)，但類似），但他們是竊取信息得來的，所以他們真的配得上這份贊譽嗎？


If this was rad, give us an ? upvote ?

如果這很酷，請給我們點個 ? 贊 ?

Jere Lull

杰里·拉爾

We have to depend upon China’s often less-than-accurate portrayal of their latest developments, while the US usually understates its weapons’ capabilities.

我們不得不依賴中國對其最新研發(fā)成果的描述——而這些描述往往不太準確；相比之下，美國通常會低調(diào)處理自己武器的實際性能。

The American jets are battle-proven, the J-20 NOT.

美國戰(zhàn)斗機是經(jīng)過實戰(zhàn)檢驗的，殲-20則不是。

US pilots are trained in their planes in near-live exercises like Top Gun or Red Flag, so are going to perform better in any aircraft they find themselves in.

美國飛行員在諸如“壯志凌云”（Top Gun）或“紅旗”（Red Flag）這類近乎實戰(zhàn)的演習中接受其飛機訓練，因此無論駕駛何種飛機，他們都可能表現(xiàn)得更好。

In contrast, China pilots might participate in carefully-choreographed mock combat shows which is the extent of their “combat training”.

相比之下，中國飛行員可能只參與精心編排的模擬戰(zhàn)斗表演，這就是他們“戰(zhàn)斗訓練”的程度。

If pressed to bet, I’d bet on the pilot and the organization, not the plane.

如果非要下注，我會押注在飛行員和組織上，而不是飛機本身。

Thus, I’d expect the US pilots to excel most of the time: “Luck” can play too much of a part in any individual match-up.

因此，我預計美國飛行員在大多數(shù)情況下會更勝一籌：在單次交戰(zhàn)中，“運氣”的成分可能過大。

In addition, the US Radar and targeting electronics are the best available anywhere.

此外，美國的雷達和瞄準電子設備是全世界最好的。

China can’t compete there because they can’t fabricate the advanced chips necessary.

中國無法在這方面競爭，因為他們無法制造所需的高級芯片。

Richard Mc
It doesn’t appear that the J20 stacks up to either the F22A or the F35A/B/C in terms of stealth, radar, or situational awareness, or maneuverability.

在隱身性能、雷達、態(tài)勢感知或機動性方面，殲-20似乎都無法與F-22A或F-35A/B/C相提并論。

It’s a little slower slower than the Mach 2.25 F-22A but faster than the F-35A/NB/C.

它比2.25馬赫的F-22A稍慢，但比F-35A/B/C快。

However, it has significantly inferior electronic warfare capability to the F-35A/B/C.

然而，其電子戰(zhàn)能力遠遜于F-35A/B/C。

The J-20 is really a 4th generation aircraft with 5th generation publiiciity.

殲-20實際上是一款披著第五代飛機外衣（宣傳）的第四代飛機。

R.C
Well considering most of the stealth craft the Chinese have developed look suspiciously like their American counterparts, does not mean they perform as well.

嗯，考慮到中國研制的大多數(shù)隱身飛機外形都與其美國同類產(chǎn)品驚人地相似，但這并不意味著它們的性能也一樣好。

The two things that stick out the most are they do not have as low a radar signature as their American counterparts and two they're jet engines are not as durable or as powerful.

最突出的兩點是：其一，它們的雷達信號特征（RCS）不像美國同類產(chǎn)品那么低；其二，它們的噴氣發(fā)動機不如美國產(chǎn)品耐用或強勁。

Jet engine technology is a big problem for the Chinese and they're actively trying to steal as much Western technology as possible concerning this.

噴氣發(fā)動機技術對中國來說是個大問題，他們正積極試圖Q取盡可能多的西方相關技術。

You must remember although they are great at reverse engineering,they don't seem to be as good at coming up with the own technology and ideas?

你必須記住，盡管他們非常擅長逆向工程，但他們似乎并不那么擅長提出自己的技術和想法？

This is one of the reasons the Russians are very hesitant to sell them small amounts of equipment.

這就是俄羅斯人非常不愿意向他們出售少量設備的原因之一。

They found that they'll simply copy and produce their own cutting Russia out.

他們發(fā)現(xiàn)中國人會直接復制并生產(chǎn)自己的產(chǎn)品，把俄羅斯排除在外。

The Chinese don't adhere to any contracts or patents.

中國人不遵守任何合同或?qū)＠?br />
Western intelligence agencies are constantly on the lookout for C corporate espionage.

西方情報機構一直在提防C的企業(yè)間諜活動。

They're considered the number one thiefs of Western technology.

他們被認為是西方技術的頭號竊賊。

Sanjeev Kulkarni
No. China copies only the outer design of the Western weapons systems. But appearance is not quality or technology.Myanmar who had imported JF-17 from Pakistan had to ground them for their junk quality.Myanmar grounds most of China-Pak built JF-17 jets.Check the news item. Even if the JF block looks like an F-16, the JF-17 needs servicing after every 60 hours of flying. Whereas the F-16 needs servicing after 800 hours of flying.

不。中國只復制了西方武器系統(tǒng)的外觀設計，但外觀并不代表品質(zhì)或技術水平。緬甸曾從巴基斯坦引進JF-17戰(zhàn)機，但由于質(zhì)量太差，不得不將它們停飛。緬甸已經(jīng)停飛了大多數(shù)由中巴聯(lián)合制造的JF-17戰(zhàn)機。你可以查一下相關新聞。即使JF系列外觀看起來像F-16，JF-17每飛行60小時就需要維修，而F-16則可以飛行800小時才需要維護。