QA回答：F22"猛禽"戰(zhàn)機(jī)是否能在戰(zhàn)斗中徹底壓制中國(guó)制造的隱身戰(zhàn)機(jī)殲-20？

James Chrisholm
Base on the recent air war between Pakistan and India, where a legacy J10CE with BVR missile destroyed the best offered by Dassault and Sukhoi. Fortunately the F16 didn’t join the party or it would have been a complete flush.
基于最近巴基斯坦和印度之間的空戰(zhàn)，一架配備超視距（BVR）導(dǎo)彈的老式J-10CE摧毀了達(dá)索和蘇霍伊提供的最先進(jìn)戰(zhàn)機(jī)。幸好F-16沒(méi)有參戰(zhàn)，否則將是全軍覆沒(méi)。

F22 will be completely destroyed even before the pilot knew what happened. Current F22, F35 or SU57 will be get the ass wiped, so will the F47. A platform obsolete even by the time it reached paper. These platforms are based on legacy doctrine of dogfighting.
F-22甚至?xí)陲w行員反應(yīng)過(guò)來(lái)之前就被徹底摧毀。當(dāng)前的F-22、F-35或SU-57都會(huì)被徹底擊敗，F(xiàn)-47也一樣。這種平臺(tái)甚至在圖紙階段就已經(jīng)過(guò)時(shí)了。這些平臺(tái)基于過(guò)時(shí)的狗斗（近距離格斗）學(xué)說(shuō)。

China is already in the forefront of datalix, AI and network warfare. You just have to accept that the days of dogfighting like the Red Baron is the very much over since 2015.
中國(guó)在數(shù)據(jù)鏈、人工智能和網(wǎng)絡(luò)戰(zhàn)方面已處于前沿。你必須接受，像“紅男爵”那樣的狗斗時(shí)代早在2015年就基本結(jié)束了。


Zero
To correctly answer this, someone would need to have classified information about the F-22 and J-20 and have no bias.
要正確回答這個(gè)問(wèn)題，需要有人掌握關(guān)于F-22和J-20的機(jī)密信息并且不帶偏見(jiàn)。

First off. In war, anything is possible. An F-14 cannot shoot down a Su-57 if they're both operated by equally capable pilots. But it would never be that way in a real situation, the Su-57 could ignore the F-14 and lose in that way. You cannot give a definitive answer to a ‘who would win’ question as anything is possible if you consider how realistic combat goes. One plane is extremely rarely 100% better than another, especially when it comes to different countries aircraft of the same generation. So no matter what, no definitive answer exists.
首先，在戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中一切皆有可能。如果由能力相當(dāng)?shù)娘w行員駕駛，一架F-14不可能擊落一架Su-57。但在真實(shí)情況下絕不會(huì)是這樣，Su-57可能會(huì)無(wú)視F-14，并因此輸?shù)簟Ｄ銦o(wú)法對(duì)“誰(shuí)會(huì)贏”的問(wèn)題給出確切答案，因?yàn)榭紤]到真實(shí)戰(zhàn)斗的復(fù)雜性，任何情況都可能發(fā)生。一架飛機(jī)極少能100%優(yōu)于另一架，尤其是涉及不同國(guó)家的同代戰(zhàn)機(jī)時(shí)。所以無(wú)論如何，都不存在確切的答案。

Second, neither has faced another 5th gen fighter in real combat. Especially not one they don't already fight alongside. Who knows if they'll fight up close or at range.
其次，兩者都未在真實(shí)戰(zhàn)斗中面對(duì)過(guò)另一款五代機(jī)。尤其是面對(duì)非盟友國(guó)家的五代機(jī)。誰(shuí)知道他們會(huì)在近距離還是超視距交火。

Third, the F-22 may be good but we don't actually know how good the J-20 is. Long range the F-22 has proven to be extremely good against 4th gen fighters. Up close it's a little better than 4th gen aircraft.
第三，F(xiàn)-22可能很棒，但我們實(shí)際上并不知道J-20有多好。F-22在超視距對(duì)抗四代機(jī)方面已被證明極其出色。在近距離格斗中，它比四代機(jī)稍好一些。

Fourth, canards do mess with stealth capabilities. But it might not be as much as you think, Boeing 6th gen fighter concepts feature them. Plus it could have classified technology that makes up for the canards. Both aircraft have classified tech.
第四，鴨翼確實(shí)會(huì)干擾隱身能力。但影響可能沒(méi)你想的那么大，波音的六代機(jī)概念設(shè)計(jì)就包含了鴨翼。此外，它可能擁有彌補(bǔ)鴨翼缺陷的機(jī)密技術(shù)。兩款飛機(jī)都擁有機(jī)密技術(shù)。

Propaganda and personal opinion are strong. Plenty of people will say the F-22 destroys because it's the best fighter ever. Some will say something similar about the J-20. Others will give half baked evidence to support either side, as well as people providing really good evidence.
宣傳和個(gè)人觀點(diǎn)影響巨大。很多人會(huì)說(shuō)F-22能碾壓，因?yàn)樗怯惺芬詠?lái)最好的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。有些人也會(huì)對(duì)J-20說(shuō)類似的話。其他人會(huì)提供半生不熟的證據(jù)來(lái)支持某一方，也有人會(huì)提供真正有力的證據(jù)。

It hasn't happened yet, so you won't get a definitive answer. If you want to justify your own opinion I can't help you there, but many will.
這（實(shí)戰(zhàn)對(duì)抗）尚未發(fā)生，所以你不會(huì)得到確切的答案。如果你想證明自己的觀點(diǎn)，我?guī)筒涣四悖芏嗳藭?huì)這么做。



Hugh Caley
Assuming equal skill between the pilots (and American pilots practice a LOT more than their Chinese counterparts), the F-22A would destroy the J-20 from a distance, maybe before the Chinese pilot was aware of the F-22A. Its radar is superior, and its stealth is superior.
假設(shè)飛行員技能相當(dāng)（而美國(guó)飛行員訓(xùn)練量遠(yuǎn)多于中國(guó)飛行員），F(xiàn)-22A將在遠(yuǎn)距離摧毀J-20，甚至可能在中國(guó)飛行員察覺(jué)到F-22A之前。它的雷達(dá)更優(yōu)越，隱身性能也更優(yōu)越。

If, miraculously, the planes should “merge” and it becomes a dogfight, the F-22A is both faster and more agile than the J-20, and would destroy it anyway.
如果奇跡般地兩機(jī)進(jìn)入“交匯”狀態(tài)變成狗斗，F(xiàn)-22A也比J-20更快、更敏捷，無(wú)論如何都會(huì)摧毀它。


Willy Mack
Pilot training is what would say who wins in a situation like this. Now we do know that United States pilots train constantly there is very little rest between their training sessions. The United States does not like to spend money to train pilots and then lose them. I do not know what the Chinese training is like but I doubt that it is as good as the United States training. It is very hard to say who would win because for one thing we know what the F-22 can do we do not know for a fact what the j20 can do because the Chinese are very good at hiding the ability of their military assets. Also the F-22 has been used in combat I do not believe the j20 has ever been used in combat so one is a combat tested plane and the other has yet to be tested in combat.
飛行員訓(xùn)練將決定在這種情況下的勝者。我們知道美國(guó)飛行員持續(xù)不斷地訓(xùn)練，訓(xùn)練間隙休息很少。美國(guó)不愿意花錢(qián)培訓(xùn)飛行員然后又損失掉他們。我不知道中國(guó)的訓(xùn)練情況如何，但我懷疑其不如美國(guó)訓(xùn)練那么好。很難說(shuō)誰(shuí)會(huì)贏，一方面我們知道F-22的能力，但我們并不確切知道J-20能做什么，因?yàn)橹袊?guó)非常善于隱藏其軍事資產(chǎn)的能力。此外，F(xiàn)-22經(jīng)歷過(guò)實(shí)戰(zhàn)，我不相信J-20有過(guò)實(shí)戰(zhàn)經(jīng)驗(yàn)，所以一架是經(jīng)過(guò)實(shí)戰(zhàn)檢驗(yàn)的飛機(jī)，另一架尚未經(jīng)過(guò)實(shí)戰(zhàn)考驗(yàn)。


Mark Joshua
Yes at nearly all ranges the F-22 wins in a landslide. In a dogfight it absolutely destroys the J-20. At medium range it kills it easily. BVR the J-20 is dead as it’s stealth doesn’t even work. If somehow the J-20 can see the F-22 and the F-22 is alone and J-20 has ground fire. Then the J-20 wins but only if the F-22 is outnumbered and destroyed. And the F-22 has been in service for 10 years and the J-20 isn’t fully operational. Also the J-20 looks more like an attack jet with a huge fuselage.
是的，在幾乎所有交戰(zhàn)距離上，F(xiàn)-22都以壓倒性優(yōu)勢(shì)獲勝。在狗斗中，它絕對(duì)能摧毀J-20。在中距離，它能輕易擊殺J-20。在超視距（BVR）作戰(zhàn)中，J-20死定了，因?yàn)樗碾[身根本不起作用。如果J-20不知怎地發(fā)現(xiàn)了F-22，并且F-22是孤軍作戰(zhàn)，而J-20有地面火力支援，那么J-20能贏——但前提是F-22被數(shù)量壓制并被摧毀。而且F-22已服役10年，而J-20尚未完全形成戰(zhàn)斗力。此外，J-20看起來(lái)更像一架擁有巨大機(jī)身的攻擊機(jī)。


it’s engines give off the heat signature of a barn and the F-22 is gives off the heat of a small bird like a robin. Therefore the F-22 sees the J-20 far away and as Kylo Ren once said “Blow that piece of junk out of the sky.”
它的發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)發(fā)出的熱信號(hào)像谷倉(cāng)那么大，而F-22發(fā)出的熱量像知更鳥(niǎo)這樣的小鳥(niǎo)一樣小。因此，F(xiàn)-22能在遠(yuǎn)處就發(fā)現(xiàn)J-20，正如凱洛·倫曾經(jīng)說(shuō)的：“把那堆垃圾從天上轟下來(lái)。”


Heather Barron
Just so we're clear... you're asking a bunch of people who have never flown said jets (or at best people who HAVE flown them but are sworn to secrecy about their capabilities) about a hypothetical dogfight in an unknown location in undefined strategic and tactical conditions with unknown pilot and unknown 3CI assets and about a thousand other unknown elements and you wanna know who would win?
先說(shuō)清楚……你是在問(wèn)一群從未駕駛過(guò)這些戰(zhàn)機(jī)的人（或者最多是駕駛過(guò)但對(duì)其性能發(fā)誓保密的人），在一個(gè)未知地點(diǎn)、未定義的戰(zhàn)略戰(zhàn)術(shù)條件下、由未知的飛行員駕駛、擁有未知的指揮、控制、通信和情報(bào)（3CI/C3I）資產(chǎn)、以及大約一千個(gè)其他未知因素的情況下，進(jìn)行一場(chǎng)假想的狗斗，然后你想知道誰(shuí)會(huì)贏？

The only possible answer is "I don't know".
唯一可能的答案是“我不知道”。


Patrick Bindner
At the J-20’s present state of development, the answer is an emphatic yes. The J-20 is roughly at the point that the F-35 was in 2010. It is currently seriously underpowered & stealth compromised compared to both the F-22 & F-35. For the future-- who knows. If the F-22, F-35 & PAK-FA are indicators of the degree of difficulty in developing such an aircraft, it will be quite a long time before it is operational -- perhaps a decade (if ever). The PAK-FA, for example, looks very much like it will not go into production, despite Sukhoi's history of excellent design/development. So far, previous Chinese fighter developments have been underwhelming.
就J-20目前的發(fā)展?fàn)顟B(tài)而言，答案絕對(duì)是肯定的（F-22會(huì)贏）。J-20大致處于F-35在2010年時(shí)的水平。與F-22和F-35相比，它目前嚴(yán)重動(dòng)力不足且隱身性能受損。至于未來(lái)——誰(shuí)知道呢。如果F-22、F-35和PAK-FA（蘇-57項(xiàng)目）可以作為研發(fā)此類飛機(jī)難度的指標(biāo)，那么它（J-20）要形成戰(zhàn)斗力還需要相當(dāng)長(zhǎng)的時(shí)間——也許十年（如果能的話）。例如，PAK-FA看起來(lái)就非常不可能投入量產(chǎn)，盡管蘇霍伊有著卓越的設(shè)計(jì)/開(kāi)發(fā)歷史。到目前為止，中國(guó)之前的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)發(fā)展都令人失望。

Regarding the F-35 -- it is an excellent indicator of the extreme difficulty in developing aircraft of this class. The F-22 was a much easier task & the J-20 looks to be more complex than the F-22. The F-35, despite the silly nonsense in the popular press & outrageously dumb lobby lies, is an extremely dangerous combat aircraft. It is by no means inferior to the F-16, as has been widely blathered by the press following that notorious software test flight vs the F-16. There have been 2 very pointed indicators of the F-35's air combat capability -- the USMC full scale sim comparo of the F-35B vs the F-18E in 2011 & the recent F-35B IOC tests. In both cases the F-35 wiped the floor with F-18s & F-16s & did so against significantly unfavorable odds. In the run-up to the IOC tests, the F-35B won every single combat encounter against F-16C-50s. The Chinese have a very long road ahead of them.
關(guān)于F-35——它是開(kāi)發(fā)此類飛機(jī)極端困難的一個(gè)絕佳例證。F-22的任務(wù)要容易得多，而J-20看起來(lái)比F-22更復(fù)雜。F-35，盡管流行媒體上充斥著愚蠢的胡言亂語(yǔ)和極其低劣的游說(shuō)謊言，但它是一款極其危險(xiǎn)的作戰(zhàn)飛機(jī)。它絕不遜色于F-16，盡管在那次臭名昭著的軟件測(cè)試飛行（對(duì)F-16）后媒體廣泛散布了這種說(shuō)法。有兩個(gè)非常有力的指標(biāo)證明了F-35的空戰(zhàn)能力——2011年美國(guó)海軍陸戰(zhàn)隊(duì)進(jìn)行的F-35B對(duì)F-18E的全尺寸模擬對(duì)抗，以及最近的F-35B初始作戰(zhàn)能力（IOC）測(cè)試。在這兩次測(cè)試中，F(xiàn)-35都徹底擊敗了F-18和F-16，而且是在顯著不利的對(duì)抗條件下完成的。在IOC測(cè)試的準(zhǔn)備階段，F(xiàn)-35B在與F-16C-50的所有對(duì)抗遭遇戰(zhàn)中均獲勝。中國(guó)還有很長(zhǎng)的路要走。

As of Aug 2016, operational F-35As & F-35Bs have not sustained a single mock combat loss against the US “teen” fighters, defeating the F-15, F-16 & F-18E/EA-18G in every encounter. An F-22 pilot who engaged an F-35A in mock combat reputedly remarked that hassling with an F-35 is very much like fighting another Raptor.
截至2016年8月，已形成作戰(zhàn)能力的F-35A和F-35B在對(duì)美國(guó)“青少年系列”（指F-15/16/18等）戰(zhàn)機(jī)的模擬對(duì)抗中未嘗敗績(jī)，在每次遭遇中都擊敗了F-15、F-16和F-18E/EA-18G。一位曾與F-35A進(jìn)行模擬對(duì)抗的F-22飛行員據(jù)稱評(píng)論道，與F-35纏斗感覺(jué)非常像在對(duì)抗另一架猛禽（Raptor，即F-22）。


Rishikesh Patil
Its too early to judge the J20. It is not even in active service yet. No one knows how much time it will take to become actively operational in the airforce.
現(xiàn)在評(píng)判J-20還為時(shí)過(guò)早。它甚至還沒(méi)有正式服役。沒(méi)人知道它需要多長(zhǎng)時(shí)間才能在空軍中完全形成戰(zhàn)斗力。

The USAF had to wait almost a decade for the raptor, from showcasing the aircraft in airshow to putting it up in active service.
美國(guó)空軍為了猛禽（F-22）幾乎等待了十年，從航展上展示飛機(jī)到將其投入現(xiàn)役。

Looking at its airfrx, the J20 looks more like an attack aircraft than a fighter. It has a large fuselage, it can carry high load of ammunition, aspects which are seen in a attacker.
從其機(jī)體來(lái)看，J-20看起來(lái)更像一架攻擊機(jī)而非戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。它擁有大型機(jī)身，可以攜帶大量彈藥，這些都是攻擊機(jī)的特點(diǎn)。


Chengdu J20 ‘Black Silk’
成都J-20 ‘黑絲綢’

In a combat between these two, the winner will be who has a smaller radar signature and Heat signature. The Raptor’s radar signature is a size of small bird, and it also has less heat signature, which makes it super stealthy.
在這兩者的對(duì)抗中，勝者將是雷達(dá)信號(hào)特征和熱信號(hào)特征更小的一方。猛禽的雷達(dá)信號(hào)特征相當(dāng)于一只小鳥(niǎo)的大小，而且它的熱信號(hào)特征也更小，這使它具有超級(jí)隱身性。


Lockheed Martin F22 ‘Raptor'
洛克希德·馬丁 F-22 ‘猛禽’

J20 radars is not known, nor its heat signature.
J-20的雷達(dá)（性能）未知，其熱信號(hào)特征也未知。

In close combat, I will bet on the Raptor, as it airfrx is more maneuverable than the J20.
在近距離格斗中，我會(huì)押注猛禽，因?yàn)樗臋C(jī)體比J-20更具機(jī)動(dòng)性。


Julian Pereira
Yes.
是的（F-22會(huì)贏）。

The Chinese J-20 stealth capability is notional at best.
中國(guó)的J-20隱身能力最多只是理論上的（notional）。

The F22 proven.
F-22是經(jīng)過(guò)驗(yàn)證的。

Remember the US uation of the Russian Foxbat Mig 25. The Foxbat was portrayed as a superfighter by the US intelligence services. The fighter where Russian technology had matched and surpassed US technology. The results, massive funding for the F14, F15, F16 and F18, actual super fighters (there were a few others that wont be mentioned).
記得美國(guó)對(duì)俄羅斯“狐蝠”米格-25的評(píng)估嗎？美國(guó)情報(bào)機(jī)構(gòu)曾將狐蝠描繪成超級(jí)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。一架俄羅斯技術(shù)匹敵并超越美國(guó)技術(shù)的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。結(jié)果呢？這導(dǎo)致了F-14、F-15、F-16和F-18（這些真正的超級(jí)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，還有其他幾款就不提了）獲得巨額資金投入。

Do not be surprised if in a few short years, it will be found that the J-20 is not even as good as an F14.
如果在短短幾年內(nèi)發(fā)現(xiàn)J-20甚至還不如一架F-14，請(qǐng)不要驚訝。

If you are paying attention, the F22 proved to be un-affordable, due to its advanced technology. As far as can be determined, the Chinese do not seem to be running into this problem. Either the J-20s technology is very, very good and cheap, or it is just…
如果你稍加留意就會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)，F(xiàn)-22因其尖端技術(shù)被證明成本過(guò)高。而就目前所知，中國(guó)似乎并未遇到這個(gè)問(wèn)題。要么是J-20的技術(shù)極其出色且成本低廉，要么就是......（暗示可能存在技術(shù)縮水或性能未達(dá)預(yù)期）